Fwd: [Bug 267513] Re: Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"

[stavros daliakopoulos]

Πως αλλάζει το ISO 639-2 ? από τον ΕΛΟΤ ;;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bug Watch Updater <[hidden email]>
Date: 2012/1/20
Subject: [Bug 267513] Re: Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
To: [hidden email]


** Changed in: iso-codes (Debian)
      Status: New => Won't Fix

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Title:
 Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"

Status in iso-codes:
 Unknown
Status in “iso-codes” package in Ubuntu:
 Triaged
Status in “language-selector” package in Ubuntu:
 Invalid
Status in “iso-codes” package in Debian:
  Won't Fix

Bug description:
 Binary package hint: language-selector

 In language-selector the translation of "Ancient Greek" and "Modern
 Greek" as "Αρχαία Ελληνικά" and "Σύγχρονα Ελληνικά" respectively makes
 those language entries appear in two separate places in the language
 list and in a position where Greek people don't expect them to be.

 They should be translated as:

 Greek, Modern -> Ελληνικά
 Greek, Ancient -> Ελληνικά (Αρχαία)

 I'm not sure where this language list translation is coming from, so
 I'll file it under language-selector, waiting for someone who knows.

 The bug at alioth.d.o:

https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/?group_id=30316&atid=413077&func=detail&aid=312565

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/iso-codes/+bug/267513/+subscriptions



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Υ.Γ. μπορείτε να μου στείλετε ένα σύντομο μήνυμα στο:
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<http://twitter.com/#%21/sdaliakopoulos>Σταύρος Δαλιακόπουλος
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[Savvas Radevic]

On 20 January 2012 11:02, stavros daliakopoulos <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Πως αλλάζει το ISO 639-2 ? από τον ΕΛΟΤ ;;
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bug Watch Updater <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2012/1/20
> Subject: [Bug 267513] Re: Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
> To: [hidden email]
>
>
> ** Changed in: iso-codes (Debian)
>      Status: New => Won't Fix
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> Greece, which is subscribed to the bug report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267513
>
> Title:
>  Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
>
> Status in iso-codes:
>  Unknown
> Status in “iso-codes” package in Ubuntu:
>  Triaged
> Status in “language-selector” package in Ubuntu:
>  Invalid
> Status in “iso-codes” package in Debian:
>  Won't Fix
>
> Bug description:
>  Binary package hint: language-selector
>
>  In language-selector the translation of "Ancient Greek" and "Modern
>  Greek" as "Αρχαία Ελληνικά" and "Σύγχρονα Ελληνικά" respectively makes
>  those language entries appear in two separate places in the language
>  list and in a position where Greek people don't expect them to be.
>
>  They should be translated as:
>
>  Greek, Modern -> Ελληνικά
>  Greek, Ancient -> Ελληνικά (Αρχαία)
>
>  I'm not sure where this language list translation is coming from, so
>  I'll file it under language-selector, waiting for someone who knows.
>
>  The bug at alioth.d.o:
>
>
> https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/?group_id=30316&atid=413077&func=detail&aid=312565
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/iso-codes/+bug/267513/+subscriptions
>
>
>

Δεν έχω ιδέα.. Απ'ό,τι κατάλαβα άλλαξαν τη μετάφραση στο git του debian. Θα
δούμε με την επόμενη έκδοση debian ή ubuntu. :)
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[stavros daliakopoulos]

το "Won't Fix" σημαίνει ότι δεν αλλαξαν κάτι [?]
για την ιστορία το "Greek Modern" θα μπορούσε να γίνει "Ελληνικά, Νέα" όπως
λέμε στο σχολείο, δηλαδή αρχαία και νέα ελληνικά.

2012/1/23 Savvas Radevic <[hidden email]>

> On 20 January 2012 11:02, stavros daliakopoulos <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Πως αλλάζει το ISO 639-2 ? από τον ΕΛΟΤ ;;
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bug Watch Updater <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 2012/1/20
>> Subject: [Bug 267513] Re: Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
>> To: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> ** Changed in: iso-codes (Debian)
>>      Status: New => Won't Fix
>>
>> --
>> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
>> Greece, which is subscribed to the bug report.
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267513
>>
>> Title:
>>  Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
>>
>> Status in iso-codes:
>>  Unknown
>> Status in “iso-codes” package in Ubuntu:
>>  Triaged
>> Status in “language-selector” package in Ubuntu:
>>  Invalid
>> Status in “iso-codes” package in Debian:
>>  Won't Fix
>>
>> Bug description:
>>  Binary package hint: language-selector
>>
>>  In language-selector the translation of "Ancient Greek" and "Modern
>>  Greek" as "Αρχαία Ελληνικά" and "Σύγχρονα Ελληνικά" respectively makes
>>  those language entries appear in two separate places in the language
>>  list and in a position where Greek people don't expect them to be.
>>
>>  They should be translated as:
>>
>>  Greek, Modern -> Ελληνικά
>>  Greek, Ancient -> Ελληνικά (Αρχαία)
>>
>>  I'm not sure where this language list translation is coming from, so
>>  I'll file it under language-selector, waiting for someone who knows.
>>
>>  The bug at alioth.d.o:
>>
>>
>> https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/?group_id=30316&atid=413077&func=detail&aid=312565
>>
>> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/iso-codes/+bug/267513/+subscriptions
>>
>>
>>
> Δεν έχω ιδέα.. Απ'ό,τι κατάλαβα άλλαξαν τη μετάφραση στο git του debian.
> Θα δούμε με την επόμενη έκδοση debian ή ubuntu. :)
>

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[Savvas Radevic]

On 23 January 2012 09:09, stavros daliakopoulos <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> το "Won't Fix" σημαίνει ότι δεν αλλαξαν κάτι [?]
> για την ιστορία το "Greek Modern" θα μπορούσε να γίνει "Ελληνικά, Νέα"
> όπως λέμε στο σχολείο, δηλαδή αρχαία και νέα ελληνικά.
>

Το won't fix για το debian bug. Εδώ αναφέρει πως το άλλαξαν:

On 7 January 2012 18:35, Christian Perrier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I fixed the *translation* in git, so it will be in the next release.
>
> However, as already said many many times, I won't fix the English
> version: if you want it to be changed, then have the ISO 639 standards
> changed.
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
> report.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267513
>
> Title:
>  Wrong translation of "Greek Modern"
>
> To manage notifications about this bug go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/iso-codes/+bug/267513/+subscriptions
>

Στο git πράγματι άλλαξε:
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=iso-codes/iso-codes.git;a=commitdiff;h=4091c16d51f73f4d8538393749eb502499339f08;hp=b5f26a64858807fb771456884ddc641bc17e1b27

Έχω στείλει μήνυμα στην ηλεκτρονική διεύθυνση που βρήκα. Ας ελπίσουμε να
απαντήσουν. :)
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[Savvas Radevic]

Διορθώθηκε η μετάφραση στο 3.32*.1*-1 (όχι στο 3.32-1).

Σε λίγο θα είναι στο debian unstable:
* http://incoming.debian.org/iso-codes_3.32.1-1_all.deb (αυτός ο σύνδεσμος
δεν θα δουλεύει όταν ανέβει στα επίσημα αποθετήρια)
* http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/iso-codes
* http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=517262

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Debian Bug Tracking System <[hidden email]>
Date: 2 February 2012 20:21
Subject: Bug#517262 closed by Tobias Quathamer <[hidden email]>
(Bug#517262: fixed in iso-codes 3.32.1-1)

Changes:
 iso-codes (3.32.1-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
  * New upstream release. This closes the following bugs from Debian
    BTS:
    - ISO 3166: Turkish by Atila KOÇ. Closes: #656892
    - ISO 639, ISO 3166-2: Greek translation of Modern Greek
      fixed to "Ελληνικά". LP: #312565. Closes: #517262
  * Update download location in debian/watch and debian/copyright
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[stavros daliakopoulos]

Δεν πίστευα οτι θα το αλλαξουν, πειστηκαν..

Στις 02 Φεβ 2012 10:06 ΜΜ, ο χρήστης "Savvas Radevic" <[hidden email]>
έγραψε:

Διορθώθηκε η μετάφραση στο 3.32*.1*-1 (όχι στο 3.32-1).

Σε λίγο θα είναι στο debian unstable:
* http://incoming.debian.org/iso-codes_3.32.1-1_all.deb (αυτός ο σύνδεσμος
δεν θα δουλεύει όταν ανέβει στα επίσημα αποθετήρια)
* http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/iso-codes
* http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=517262

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Debian Bug Tracking System <[hidden email]>
Date: 2 February 2012 20:21
Subject: Bug#517262 closed by Tobias Quathamer <[hidden email]>
(Bug#517262: fixed in iso-codes 3.32.1-1)

Changes:
 iso-codes (3.32.1-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
 * New upstream release. This closes the following bugs from Debian
   BTS:
   - ISO 3166: Turkish by Atila KOÇ. Closes: #656892
   - ISO 639, ISO 3166-2: Greek translation of Modern Greek
     fixed to "Ελληνικά". LP: #312565. Closes: #517262
 * Update download location in debian/watch and debian/copyright
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[Savvas Radevic]

Το πρόβλημα παραμένει στο iso-code "upstream". Δεν έχω ιδέα πώς να τους
πείσω να αλλάξουν το standard.

http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/faq.html#19

*Can ISO 639 language codes be changed after they had initially been

> created?*
>
> ISO 639 language codes are usually not changed in order to ensure
> continuity and stability of online retrieval from large databases built
> over many years. However, when language names associated with codes have
> been changed, variant forms of a language name may be included in the
> entry, separated by a semicolon in the code lists.
>
> Obsolete codes are generally not reassigned when they have been changed or
> discontinued.
>
> A list of codes that have been changed or added to the lists are located
> at: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/codechanges.html
>
> To request a change to the name of an already defined language name,
> please see: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639-2chform.html
>

 Εχω ήδη συμπληρώσει τη φορμα για να ζητήσω αλλαγή του iso 639, αν και
νομίζω άδικα χάνω το χρόνο μου.
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[Nick Andrik]

Δοκίμασε αυτή στην φόρμα:
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/iso639-2chform.php

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N.AND

Στις 04/02/2012 03:31 πμ, ο/η Savvas Radevic έγραψε:

> Το πρόβλημα παραμένει στο iso-code "upstream". Δεν έχω ιδέα πώς να τους
> πείσω να αλλάξουν το standard.
>
> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/faq.html#19
>
> *Can ISO 639 language codes be changed after they had initially been
>> created?*
>>
>> ISO 639 language codes are usually not changed in order to ensure
>> continuity and stability of online retrieval from large databases built
>> over many years. However, when language names associated with codes have
>> been changed, variant forms of a language name may be included in the
>> entry, separated by a semicolon in the code lists.
>>
>> Obsolete codes are generally not reassigned when they have been changed or
>> discontinued.
>>
>> A list of codes that have been changed or added to the lists are located
>> at: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/codechanges.html
>>
>> To request a change to the name of an already defined language name,
>> please see: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639-2chform.html
>>
>
>   Εχω ήδη συμπληρώσει τη φορμα για να ζητήσω αλλαγή του iso 639, αν και
> νομίζω άδικα χάνω το χρόνο μου.
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[Nick Andrik]

Oops, μόλις διάβασα και το υπόλοιπο του email :S
Σου έχουν απαντήσει από εκεί;

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N.AND

Στις 06/02/2012 10:47 πμ, ο/η Nick Andrik έγραψε:

> Δοκίμασε αυτή στην φόρμα:
> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/iso639-2chform.php
>
> --
> =Do-
> N.AND
>
> Στις 04/02/2012 03:31 πμ, ο/η Savvas Radevic έγραψε:
>> Το πρόβλημα παραμένει στο iso-code "upstream". Δεν έχω ιδέα πώς να τους
>> πείσω να αλλάξουν το standard.
>>
>> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/faq.html#19
>>
>> *Can ISO 639 language codes be changed after they had initially been
>>> created?*
>>>
>>> ISO 639 language codes are usually not changed in order to ensure
>>> continuity and stability of online retrieval from large databases built
>>> over many years. However, when language names associated with codes have
>>> been changed, variant forms of a language name may be included in the
>>> entry, separated by a semicolon in the code lists.
>>>
>>> Obsolete codes are generally not reassigned when they have been
>>> changed or
>>> discontinued.
>>>
>>> A list of codes that have been changed or added to the lists are located
>>> at: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/codechanges.html
>>>
>>> To request a change to the name of an already defined language name,
>>> please see: www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639-2chform.html
>>>
>>
>> Εχω ήδη συμπληρώσει τη φορμα για να ζητήσω αλλαγή του iso 639, αν και
>> νομίζω άδικα χάνω το χρόνο μου.
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[Savvas Radevic]

On 6 February 2012 10:47, Nick Andrik <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Δοκίμασε αυτή στην φόρμα:
> http://www.loc.gov/standards/**iso639-2/php/iso639-2chform.**php<http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/iso639-2chform.php>
>
>
Ήδη το έκανα :)


> Στις 04/02/2012 03:31 πμ, ο/η Savvas Radevic έγραψε:
>
>> Εχω ήδη συμπληρώσει τη φορμα για να ζητήσω αλλαγή του iso 639, αν και
>> νομίζω άδικα χάνω το χρόνο μου.
>>
>
Περιττό να πω πως δεν έχω πάρει απάντηση.
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[Savvas Radevic]

Έστειλα και στον ΕΛΟΤ (info-at-elot.gr) που αναφέρθηκε προηγουμένως, μπας
και μπορούν να βοηθήσουν.
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[Savvas Radevic]

2012/2/6 Nick Andrik <[hidden email]>

> Αν δούμε τι υπάρχει ήδη στην λίστα:
> http://www.loc.gov/standards/**iso639-2/php/code_list.php<http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php>
>
> μπορείς να παραθέσεις το παράδειγμα των Αγγλικών, Γαλλικών, Γερμανικών,
> Ολλανδικών Ιρλανδικών κλπ κλπ:
>
> ang             English, Old (ca.450-1100)
> enm             English, Middle (1100-1500)
> eng     en      English
>
>
> fro             French, Old (842-ca.1400)
> frm             French, Middle (ca.1400-1600)
> fre (B)
> fra (T) fr      French
>
>
> goh             German, Old High (ca.750-1050)
> gmh             German, Middle High (ca.1050-1500)
> ger (B)
> deu (T) de      German
>
> dum             Dutch, Middle (ca.1050-1350)
> dut (B)
> nld (T) nl      Dutch; Flemish
>
> Χαρακτηρισμός υπάρχει μόνο στις "παλιές" εκδόσεις.
> Πουθενά αλλού σε όλη την λίστα δεν υπάρχει ο χαρακτηρισμός modern.
> Αν πατήσεις σε αυτό το επιχείρημα πιστεύω θα το αλλάξουν.
>
> Βέβαια δεν ξέρω πόσο καιρό πριν έκανες αίτηση και γενικά τι χρόνο
> απόκρισης έχουν...
>
> --
> =Do-
> N.AND
>

Ορίστε ένα δείγμα. Κάτι παρόμοιο έστειλα και στη φόρμα που συμπλήρωσα.
Ήταν την ίδια ημερα που έστειλα και email αν δεν κάνω λάθος. Αν πάρω
απάντηση θα σας ενημερώσω. :)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Savvas Radevic <[hidden email]>
Date: 23 January 2012 09:20
Subject: "Greek" instead of "Greek, Modern (1453-)"
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Cc: Ubuntu Mailing list <[hidden email]>


Hello, my name is Savvas Radevic. I found the contact emails here:
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/
No modern language has "Modern" in its description. This causes confusion
between users of iso639-2.

For example, English:
English English anglais engen  English, Middle (1100-1500) English, Middle
(1100-1500) anglais moyen (1100-1500) enm   English, Old (ca.450-1100) English,
Old (ca.450-1100) anglo-saxon (ca.450-1100) ang
..and French:
French French français fre/frafr  French, Middle (ca.1400-1600) French,
Middle (ca.1400-1600) français moyen (1400-1600) frm   French, Old
(842-ca.1400) French, Old (842-ca.1400) français ancien (842-ca.1400) fro
However, Greek:
Greek, Ancient (to 1453) Greek, Ancient (to 1453) grec ancien (jusqu'à 1453)
grc   Greek, Modern (1453-) Greek, Modern (1453-) grec moderne (après 1453)
gre/ellel
as listed in:
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/English_list.php

I trust that my voice will be heard and appreciated. I represent a
free/open source community (www.ubuntu-gr.org) that wants to fix this
error. Here are some bug reports:
https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/?group_id=30316&atid=413077&func=detail&aid=312565
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=605057
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=517262
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iso-codes/+bug/267513

We propose "Greek, Modern (1453-)" to be written as just "Greek", as it
happens in other languages (such as English and French).
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